SLK
I’m excited today for everyone to get to know you a little bit, and all that you do behind the scenes at the museum. Because it’s just so, as I said behind the scenes, and I wanted to start off, though, by describing who I am a little bit for the listeners. Then I’ll pass it on to you. So, I’m a queer female, cisgendered, white-bodied person. To give the listeners a visual reference: I have brown hair, a medium build, and have clear glasses. I find this is a nice way to orient listeners on podcasts. Brad, will you introduce yourself a little bit, and give us a visual description of yourself today.
BJ
Brad Johnson. I’m just your basic white guy, heterosexual, have lots of friends on all sides of the aisles. And just sitting here having a nice chat with you Stacey.
SLK
So, let’s dive into your role at the Nasher and reveal what you do a bit. I’ll just divulge that I have a background in art conservation. I worked formerly at the North Carolina Museum of Art and other museums as well. I’ve also exhibited and performed at the Nasher and I’m working with the Ancient American Collection and I’m on the friend’s board. So, there’s a lot of things that I do with the Nasher. So, I’m very familiar with what Brad is doing. But I really am excited to get him to talk to you a little bi t about his title of Exhibition Designer. Brad, would you tell us—because that means different things at different museums—can you tell us what the exhibition designer at the Nasher really means?
BJ
If I was at a large institution, I would be primarily focused on drawing designs for exhibitions as they come up and I do that here at the Nasher. But, at the Nasher many people wear many different hats. So, I’ll also work on all the installations that we do. The nice thing is not only do I think about where it’s going to go in the show, but I’m thinking about installing it at the same time.
It can mean anywhere from…we’ll work on taking down an exhibition, it might take about a week to take down and to pack up and then we’ll have a two-week period where the construction of the new walls will go up. Now we designed the walls to fit the artwork. And so, if you’re familiar with our shows, you’ll see that each of them is different depending on the space, depending on the people, the artist. During that time the walls are installed and we’re still working behind the scenes preparing art. Sometimes we’ll do some of the unpacking to prepare for it. I work primarily with a crew of two other people.
SLK
Are they the “basement boys”? This is what I’ve heard you call yourselves.
BJ
We actually—that’s not our term, and as a matter of fact. I hadn’t even heard that until today. The “basement boys”…I guess we do, we do survive in the basement. That’s where most of my work takes place.
SLK
Well, that’s where conservators are usually put to. We’re usually put in the basement as well. So, I could relate to that. That’s really funny because I was just talking to your colleagues at the Nasher, and they said that you all named yourselves that and that they want you to make t-shirts. So, there’s a huge rallying behind this name. But if you didn’t name yourself the “basement boys”. I’m not going to call you that anymore.
BJ
Well, it’s fine if you want to call us that but, I don’t know, we’re just sort of like the prep crew, the art handlers. Whatever we take on different roles and maybe at some point we are the “basement boys”. Maybe we should embrace the “basement boys”.
The two other “basement boys” that are here are Alan Dippy and Patrick Krivacka. And without them and their dedication and hard work it would be impossible to do. They’re the mainstays of the museum and whenever we’re thinking about “what’s happening” we think in terms of the three of us and what assistance we need to accomplish our goals.
SLK
Yeah, it takes a lot of teamwork, doesn’t it? working in museums. A lot of people don’t see that, and I appreciate you giving a shout out to Patrick and Allen. I was curious a little bit, how did you get into exhibition design? What was your path? Were you born with a desire to be an exhibition designer?
BJ
No, that’s not the case. I might have been born with some design instincts because of just what I liked to do when I was little, but I think that is the path that brought me into exhibition design, well, it began at the Ackland Museum at UNC Chapel Hill and I was taking an Art History Class and they had posted a bulletin of needing some help. So, I just answered it. I needed to make some extra money and I answered it and started working there at the Ackland and one thing led to another. I ended up working there full time, as people progressed and moved on to other things, I was sort of left in charge at a certain point.
SLK
I was going to ask you how long you have worked at Nasher at this point?
BJ
I’ve been at the Nasher at Duke… I’ve been here over 20 years. But I was also at the Ackland for 20 years. It’s been a while, so I must think hard to go back that far.
SLK
It’s funny, I do know you but also, I’m learning so many things about you right now. For example, how our UNC Chapel Hill roots kind of cross like I got exposed to art as a studio artist and also conservation when I was at UNC Chapel Hill as a student. And then you’re diving into exhibition design. You know, through the Ackland at UNC Chapel Hill, so I love how that intersection of our past histories. It’s great.
You talked a little bit about what your day to day looks like, but can you run us through—and I know every day is probably different for you—that’s the way my days roll too every day is not the same. You’re not just sitting in your office designing exhibitions and dreaming up Brunswick stew recipes. Right? Because you’re a master chef with Brunswick Stew, right?
BJ
Yet, every day is different, and I think that’s what makes the job not only challenging but fun, exciting, and worthwhile. There are many different things that make up the job. We hang a lot of different kinds of art. Some artists are better at presenting their art ready to install, others we must work with them or work with their art. Everything is problem solving which is a huge part of the job and that’s a lot of fun. It’s a lot of fun to take something that has never been done before and to figure out a way to do it. You may never ever do that again. But you had to go through that. I think you do a lot of that also. Not only your artwork, but with some of the other challenges you have in your conservation work. So, that to me is one of the reasons that this is a wonderful job.
SLK
You have a lot of creativity in your job, you really do. Solving problems takes so much creative practice. So that’s a great segue to the exhibition “Reckoning and Resilience North Carolina Art Now”.
Let’s back up a little bit with that exhibition and talk about the timeline of putting an exhibition together, because most people really, I find since I do work in museums—but also am an artist working with museums—most people have no idea how far out these exhibitions are planned. So, can you tell us when you at the Nasher when you all started planning that exhibition.
BJ
It was mostly on the drawing boards before the pandemic, but changes had to be made. Schedules had to be changed and because we had more time to just talk about the show, the curators spent, I think, more time working with the artists virtually during the time that we were closed. So, we were able to do planning in that regard. Now, the curators of the ones who, of course, selected all the art and, in this case, I think we had five curators working on this exhibition which is quite unusual.
SLK
Yeah, that’s a lot of cooks in the kitchen.
BJ
It is and I’m not sure how they divided things up. In the end, I think they came up with a very successful show with a lot of strong works in it and part of the challenge was then making the art “work” within the space. And a lot of that we did a lot of that virtually as well working with some of the plans we did different layouts and tried to make sure we had the correct number of pieces that would fit into the space. And that took place a lot behind the scenes. But, two years for a show is not a huge amount of time. I mean many shows can take much longer than that.
SLK
Yeah, that’s so true.
You were talking about creative solutions, or I add “creative” in there. Was there anything within the artist like the North Carolina Artist Exhibition that you had to have a creative solution for that comes to mind?
BJ
It was a little bit of a creative solution to work with the five curators. Because that’s about three more curators than you need and it’s understandable. Everybody has maybe a favorite artist or an artist they’ve worked with.
They have a connection to that artist, and they may want to showcase that artist so they may feel a certain way about the way their art should be presented so part of it is making sure that everybody’s heard in the case of the five curators and to have input and to come up with a consensus on what feels right in the space right.
SLK
I have one specific piece that I wanted to bring up because as someone that does installation art and has worked in museums. I walk into galleries, and I, just like I’m sure you do when you walk into an art exhibition, you’re looking at such different things than the typical public right? You’re looking at how things are mounted, how things are displayed, what decisions they made, what they put first or second, the text, the wall panels, the flow.
I was specifically looking at Elizabeth Alexander’s piece, A Mightier Work is Ahead, from 2021 and these and I know you’re familiar. I’m just going to describe it for the listeners; these are pieces that are made from Confederate commemorative porcelain plates, and I noticed on her website versus in the gallery. They are presented within this white frame and then they have a light gray paint behind the plates, and they’re mounted within that frame on the wall. Then there’s the lighting really and you know an intense shadow that’s happening. And you know all of that seems very intentional to me. And I was just curious, is that all the artist or is any of that you or your colleagues? Like how did that kind of come together presenting them within this frame, et cetera?
BJ
That’s a good example of when we were doing the layout and her piece—of course I could never take credit for any of the fine art that’s in the show—the artist came up with a brilliant idea and I love those pieces. But we had been doing a layout of the pieces and we of course had it on a blanket in order to protect the objects and noticed how much better they looked on a dark background than they did on the white background and so it was pretty easy to say, “let’s put this in some sort of background and frame it in to highlight it a little bit.” So that’s how that came to be in that one example.
SLK
I think that’s really fascinating for people that aren’t you know involved in art installation. It’s such a collaborative process with the curator but also with you and the artist. Holding Elizabeth’s intention and knowing what the intention of the work is and knowing what you can shift, what you can amplify, and what you can support within her vision. Through these different materials and display approaches and exhibition approaches.
I was really interested to have you talk about the difference between in-house curated exhibitions and then traveling prepackaged exhibitions, because you and I both know those are two different worlds. So, can you just share how it is working with an exhibition created in-house different from a traveling exhibition. Say Ebony G. Patterson […while the dew is still on the roses…].
BJ
The Ebony Patterson [exhibition] which traveled to us and was an incredible exhibition. And we worked with Ebony for weeks on the install, I mean it was so sad that we had this wonderful show opening and then the pandemic struck, and it was only seen more or less virtually, after that. I think a few students might have been able to see it. I think we were open for maybe ten days. I can’t recall exactly. But, to me it’s actually…a show that already exists is easier. I can go look at it and I can see it already installed somewhere, and so I can draw on the successes that have happened at other places and see the stronger works. And make those choices for us or at least work with the curator to make the choices here at the Nasher. A show that we begin and has never been shown anywhere I think is more difficult. I often don’t see the objects until they arrive on site. So, I’m working from photographs until then. And then it is a lot of the curators working to know associations they want to make the pieces. We’ll do a layout that’s based on the images and maybe the curator has seen most of the works, maybe not. But then when the show arrives, we still make changes. So, you must do a layout realizing that you may be making changes once it arrives and that’s nice because, that way you don’t have to feel that this is set in stone, and it allows you to be flexible.
SLK
I didn’t get to see Ebony Patterson’s exhibition in person. I did you know have seen the video. I did hear from my cohorts that are also your cohorts, that helped to install the show. And that they would end the day covered in glitter and I said ‘oh my gosh’ how lucky they are to have this like magic artist dust from installing. I mean because her exhibition included frame drawings, tapestries, videos, sculptures, installations, surfaces, that were layered with vinyl, flowers, glitter, lace, and beads. Did I cover it?
BJ
It was floor to ceiling wallpaper that was a cloth wallpaper that was installed and flowers. Oh my gosh, I don’t even know how many huge boxes of flowers that were stapled all over hanging flowers. It was probably the largest, most difficult installation that we’ve done.
SLK
What would you say was difficult about it? I just want to go ahead and say as a disclaimer like you know we are not saying that the artist’s work is difficult, we know, as people that work in museums and as an artist too, we support the fact that there’s a level of complexity that is involved in installation art. And as museum employees we support that and try to find ways to make that happen and support the artist’s intention. So that’s not reflecting on Ebony Patterson. I just wanted to know Brad from you like what would you say was difficult for you all as a staff in terms of problem solving?
BJ
In terms of problem solving, you know Ebony. Working with Ebony, she was of course- I hadn’t met her until she came here but working with her was a pleasure. She was a very comfortable person to work with and that all went very smoothly. It was just the actual numbers of staff we had. That we were trying to accomplish this huge endeavor within a fairly short period of time, so it was “everybody show up at this time and we’ll start working and we’ll keep doing this every day until we get the okay from Ebony that we feel like we’ve got it right.” And it all worked out and everybody was working to the same end. So, you’re right. The challenge of installing art doesn’t tell you about the art itself. Seeing the art is the result. We could see where we were going so it was wonderful to work with her.
SLK
Well, I will say, I did come to the museum and someone, I think it was Kelly. We’ll talk about her in a little bit. She is the registrar at the Nasher. One of the registrars. She walked me into the gallery to show me what you all were doing. Just so people can understand the visual. How many people were working in the gallery to help Ebony install this work?
BJ
It was probably ten people. That was working continuously she also had a member of her studio working with her as well. That was working continuously; she also had a member of her studio working with her as well. Could have been as many as twelve. But there were a lot of people, and the goal is of course to have everybody working as efficiently as possible. That’s what we were trying to do.
SLK
Were people on scissor lifts? Or what did you see when you walked in the gallery during the installation? Describe it a little bit.
BJ
We had two scissor lifts. Because there were these large sorts of hanging planters that were installed throughout the space. The wallpaper that I mentioned before went floor to ceiling. It had to be stapled all the way, the edges had to be stapled. There was a piece that- I don’t know how many thousands of shoes that were- that’s where a lot of glitter came from. That hung in one specific place. Several people were working just with that one piece for the installation of it.
SLK
That’s incredible. Well, I’m sorry that everyone and I as many people couldn’t see that as you had hoped, and I know that’s in the past. But that is something that I wanted to celebrate because I know that was a huge effort on the staff and for you. So, the other thing I want to ask you? Do you have any kind of a dangerous installation approach that you’ve been a part of? Is there anything that comes to mind where you’re like “I’m not so sure about this” and maybe for liability reasons we don’t want to say this “on the air” but is there anything?
BJ
Probably the scariest installation challenge we had was years ago, we were going to do an installation of a dozen large pots by the artist Mark Hewitt who’s based in Chatham County. Sarah Schroth, who was the chief curator at the time, wanted to have a couple of the pots installed on the corners of the building so you could sort of see them from a distance.
SLK
The conservator in me is just like trembling right now.
BJ
And of course, she asked if we could do this, and I didn’t know if we could do it or not but I thought we could.
SLK
Worth a try, right?!
BJ
So, yeah, I mean I guess I won’t say we can’t do it unless I know I’ve done it and it didn’t work out. So in this case, one of them went to a corner where we had a lot of access to. We could build a little platform, set the pot on, it was done. It was easy. But another one went right on the corner, and it was in a parapet, so we had to get up. We had a small scaffolding where people were being held by the buckles and their pants and stuff. Mark Hewit himself was up on the building and I’ve heard him describe it as one of the most terrifying times of his life. For working with art, I know I felt the same way. That was- you know it’s one of those cases where probably in hindsight we could have done it a little different, but in the end, they were installed, and they looked wonderful. I think maybe two weeks later, Duke told us we had to take them down because now they were afraid, they were going to fall off the building. So, they were afraid of that now.
SLK
Then like hit a person. [LAUGHS]
BJ
Now, they weren’t going to fall off the building because these are round objects. Well, wind goes around a round object and doesn’t blow it. That’s why silos are round. So that the wind will go around it. So anyway, we took them down for Duke.
SLK
How were they anchored up there?
BJ
They weren’t anchored at all, they were sitting. They actually are heavy pots. I mean you’re familiar with Mark’s large pots. They have a lot of weight to them.
SLK
You know you learn something from that process, right? You said, you may not do it the same again. So, I just wanted to- well so, every time I install my own installation art, I learn something new about my own process, new materials, and new approaches to installing objects. I make new mistakes every time that I avoid the next time. An example of that for me is starting to hang clipboards with Velcro on large panels that look like fake wood paneling. I didn’t realize, I’m just giving an example here that after I took the Velcro off that it would take the faux wood grain look with it. I was like, well ‘crap’. I can’t reuse the wood paneling that they no longer make, so I’ve had to adjust my installation techniques. With my clipboards of my 65 clipboards that I own. I’m just curious. Are there any mistakes on your job that you’ve learned from over the years that you’re still learning from?
BJ
A definition of what we do in general is to handle art safely. So, we of course can’t be attaching things to artwork in general. Unless we absolutely know that it’s safe and, in this case, you were just dealing with paneling.
SLK
Oh yea yea, no, what I’m doing is not conservation-friendly and recommended by any museum employee. No!
BJ
Right? Well, we’ve probably done the same thing. Where we’ve attached something to a wall, but it wouldn’t necessarily have been a piece of artwork. But I mean we try and plan things out well enough ahead of time so the safety of the staff and the art is our primary importance when we’re actually to the point of installing. I think we have the luxury of being able to plan things for a longer period so that we can go through different scenarios, we can try different glues, we can try different attachments. I think as an artist your time in a way is much more valuable than ours is trying to accomplish things. You can’t be working on something for weeks at a time you need to make it happen. Where we try and think of the scenarios ahead of time.
SLK
I love that. So, you’re just basically telling me you never make mistakes and that’s so wonderful. Thank you. [LAUGHS]
BJ
I can’t tell you, my mistakes. See that’s the difference.
SLK
I got it. Some things must stay secret.
Ok, well, let’s get a little bit more serious. Of course, we’ve been navigating a pandemic now since 2020. We were just talking about that in terms of Ebony Patterson’s show. At least, since 2020 here in the U.S. It’s had a huge impact on the arts and personally I had performances canceled. I had to deinstall an art installation without fulfilling the vision I had for the work. I just kind of watched the pace and momentum of my career shift a bit. I know that the Nasher had to close its doors to the public during the pandemic as many arts institutions experienced. I was curious. How long did you all have to close for? How did your job shift during the pandemic? What was the difficulty around that for you?
BJ
Of course we closed like the world did. I guess that was more or less almost mid-March, I think we had closed the Friday before the Tuesday when everything else shut down. I wasn’t allowed back into the museum until August of that year, so those were probably for me personally the hardest times of just being on Zoom calls. Zoom became your daily connection to other people you worked with. You know, invent things and think of ways you could be of help at work—other things you might be able to do. There was a lot of planning, changing, rerouting and this is what we can do if this happens. So, a lot of different scenarios during that time.
SLK
I think it was such a hard thing, I mean obviously it was a hard thing and it still is in many ways. but it was just not knowing when you might be able to go back to work. And when you might be able to let the public back in because you all didn’t let the public back in when you went back to work and were only open to students, right? and faculty for a while.
BJ
And by appointment only. We were trying to work as best we could within the University, and of course safety was a huge concern. People really didn’t know what we were up against and we were just trying to navigate it the best we could and for me, it was hard. I mean I got to work every day and all of a sudden, I wasn’t going to work every day. That was a real adjustment, for someone who work is a big part of my life.
SLK
Yeah, and it’s not just a computer-based. It’s so physical. You’re moving around. You’re engaging with people and like you know there are a lot of people that exist that way. D uring this period of the pandemic we’ve seen a demand for arts institutions to acknowledge racial inequities that exist within the very white organizations that many of them are and what role they play. Kind of interrogating what role they play in the larger inequities in the arts in general.
Personally, for me as an artist I began asking these questions in regard to my own artwork before the pandemic began and before the murder of George Floyd, but my awareness has continued to expand in regards to the impact of my whiteness through my artwork. For me this is a lifelong journey that will continue to evolve and that said knowing that you and I are both two white-bodied people, our whiteness shows up in all aspects of what we do and how we navigate our lives. I was just curious, like how do you think your whiteness shows up in your exhibition design or your work at the Nasher? Have you encountered this yet in any ways that you’re aware of?
BJ
I haven’t encountered anything directly, but I’m sure it shows up. I would love for someone to tell me if there are ways that I could be of more help and do things differently. The way I’ve always approached installations is to, of course, work with the curators but to work with the artists. Whoever the artist is, I want to know what they want, what they’re trying to accomplish from the installation and so it’s an approach of working with each artist. I would hope they would be honest with me about what they would like and if they feel like something isn’t going the way it should or their work could look better a different way.
But all I can do is work from where I am and grow from that. As well as- I think you’ve said and just be open because there’s so many different ways to install exhibitions. There’s no right way. There’s a way that I do it primarily but that doesn’t mean it’s the best way. That’s just the way I approach it. I’m always happy to hear what other people have to say and that’s one nice thing about going to other museums and seeing the way they do things is because you can get ideas from that.
SLK
Well, I appreciate that honesty and that reflection. I think you know as I said before and I feel the same as you. It’s like staying open to receiving that feedback, that insight from people that are different from you. I think it’s just you know, it’s an important time to be developing a new level of awareness around our whiteness. And sitting in any discomfort that emerges from these reflections or from feedback that we get I haven’t always received that. With an open mind in my past, I am really working on that and trying to collaborate with others that reflect those things back at me.
I also like to remind people, especially people that work in museums, such as yourself and I do too. That we are all gatekeepers in some ways. You just kind of referred to this—like we all have access to resources that many other people do not by working in these institutions. What I love hearing is that you see it as a collaboration that you’re listening to the artist and you’re finding ways to offer those resources to the artist. That’s a huge benefit, that’s just something that we all must keep doing from these places of power that we have within these positions, that we do hold. We do have power and that’s what you were referring to. That power dynamic of that conversation with an artist about how they want their work to be shown. I think it’s great. The work you’re doing and that awareness that you have Brad so, thank you.
Speaking of people that work in museums I know that you can’t do your job alone, and you gave a shout out to two co-workers that work in the basement with you and in the galleries. I’m not going to call you the “b-boys” anymore. I just shortened it. Is there anybody else that you want to give a shout out to right now that you work with that often is not seen or heard? In terms of exhibitions and what happens at the Nasher? Anybody else?
BJ
Well, of course I work very closely with the registrar. And there are several registers, but our head registrar is Kelly Woolbright. I work very closely with her and she’s a pleasure to work with. I’m also, you know- happy to mention that we’re married.
SLK
I was like come on. You got to say that you’re married, Brad.
BJ
I thought you were going to say it, then you know I would follow up. I think one of your questions was “what was it like to more or less work with someone you’re married to”. I think this goes for a lot of things and people that we work with. That if you have respect for other people and for what they have to say it goes a long way for whatever connection you have with them and however, you’re working. I think Kelly and I can work at work together and we rarely might talk about anything at home because we’re focused on the job, especially during an exhibition change. It’s not the same at home. Of course, we talk about work, but we know all the characters involved and it actually is nice to be able to share with the closest person to you things that they already understand. I hope she feels the same way about it.
SLK
Well, I’ll ask her next time I see her. [BOTH LAUGH] I have seen both of you at the Nasher working and both of you at your home and it seems like you all have figured out how to coexist in both settings. It’s amazing I have to say. Ok, so a couple of other questions. I have one “phone in question” from Shannon Harris, who’s a former exhibition designer from the North Carolina Museum of Art. I talked to her a little bit about how I was going to interview you and she had all these ideas for all these questions. But one of my favorite questions she posed was; “What is your favorite tool?”
BJ
Well, I think you phrased it as “what tool could I not do without right?”
BJ
We’ll phrase it that way. Yes! What tool can you not do without?
BJ
I’m willing to bet you could figure this out on your own. Because I imagine you use the same tool all the time. But it’s a measuring tape because you cannot, I can’t do anything without it I mean it. It begins with every piece of art. The scale of the art. How you’re going to place it on the wall the space you’re going to give it. So, it would be the measuring tape for me. It’s boring, but sorry.
SLK
Don’t apologize, that’s totally fine. That’s fundamental. I love it. Ironically, I think because I do conservation work then also, I am an artist. When I do my artwork, I really negate the tape measure. I’m just like hold it up and let me see how it looks. Let’s put it there like that, I do besides, you know, putting up wood paneling and having to measure spaces. But yes, I would say for conservation work, we’re over analytical and we need to know how everything is, you know? How big everything is to the nth degree, so to the inch, to the minute measurement.
SLK
One other question (this is for my dad because my dad is from Kinley and Wilson, and I grew up eating Brunswick Stew.) I want to know what your secret ingredient is.
BJ
I would say there’s not a secret ingredient. I would share what’s in it but the key for me is to not overcook it. Because you start it pretty early in the morning and you don’t want it to overcook and I don’t mean burning it or anything. I mean you want it to still have some semblance of vegetables and things You don’t want it to be totally mush. You want it to have some substance.
SLK
So yeah, you’ve had this annual party at your house for how long now this Brunswick Stew gathering of arts community people.
BJ
I’ve been cooking Brunswick Stew since 1985 now.
SLK
That’s amazing, I love it. Well, I was honored to be invited last round and hopefully I’ll be invited again. But my dad’s secret was butter beans. I don’t really think that’s a secret, but you know.
BJ
You’re always welcome.
SLK
My dad’s secret was butter beans. I don’t really think that’s a secret, but you know.
BJ
We have butter beans too. They are very good in there.
SLK
Let’s wrap up on a positive note because I know it’s been a rough go of it. We talked about the pandemic and how that’s impacted what we both do. So, what do you look forward to in the next year in any part of your life?
BJ
The next part of the year, I mean for me, what I’m hoping is to be able to visit with people unencumbered by masks and to feel safe as we move forward. I won’t say to get things back to normal, because there is no normal anymore. I think we are where we are. But being able to go to work on a regular basis and see the people you work with, see their faces and to feel good about that. That’s what means a lot to me, so I’m hoping there becomes a more familiar rhythm to life and work as we continue.
SLK
That’s a beautiful response. I mean, I thought you’re going to say something like a vacation in Tahiti. You are going to a brewery in Asheville or something, but that was very beautiful. Brad, it’s been so fun today to share this conversation and this virtual presence with you. Thanks for chatting with me. I just want to say I hope I see you again soon. I’m sure we will be right.
BJ
Well, thank you Stacey. I think you’re wonderful. I think you’re a natural and I think you should just do your own podcast all the time because with all your free time you should do your own podcast. So, thank you very much.
SLK
Yeah, no with all my free time right.
BJ
For interviewing you’re excellent at it.
SLK
Well, I just want to thank the listeners of the podcast and I want to encourage everyone to come to the Nasher Museum of Art at Duke University. Soon to check out the current exhibitions and see Brad’s and the entire staff’s very hard work and action. So, thank you all, have a great day.
BJ
Bye-bye.
